Curse

gooeydark · Aug 18, 2010, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

The more I think about it, though, the more I feel this is simply becomming a HP +29/HP+30 shield discussion. If you died with a 40/40 set, it's likely you would've died with a shield aswell (since hexway is pressure and not spike), and vice versa if you party wiped with a shield, a 40/40 definatly couldn't have kept u up alot longer.

Nontheless, I'dd rather see my party wiped with our HB monk on 40/40 than a shield, because then I atleast have the feeling he tried

The more I read your posts, the more I feel like you either don't monk, or are completely retarded.

Any type of pressure build (in GvG and HA) will have some form of damage, be it ele or physical. It can have a lot of it's damage mitigated by proper shield sets, which, in turn, will negate A LOT of pressure. Camping 40/40 set just for the slight chance to get random triggers on fasts casts and recharges for your skills is the most ridiculous arguement I've ever heard (ESPECIALLY for patient and dwaynas, both which will have super FC under HBoon, and have relatively short recharges themselves). Maybe a quick swap to cast HealParty here and there is fine, but dying on a 40/40 out of pure stupidity is unacceptable for any monk (in GvG OR HA).

On a side note: Comparing me to any HA monk no matter how high their rank: hilarious.

*lemming* · Aug 18, 2010, 11:32 PM // 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Yeah, but anyone get get finals, or even top 10 GvG nowadays. Look at Good. They're not terrible players (some of them are actually good), but by no means could be called top template players. If you play GvG long enough, or even better said, if you have 7 other people to play it with, you'll eventually get top 5-10, solely because the format has become so repetitive. The reason noone takes WoOm in HA serious, I don' t take any GvG guild serious anymore. (With the exception of few who could actually break top 10 2-3 years ago)

Implying your opinion matters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

40% of your casts (yeah, I know 36-4, but ignore that for now) will cast 50% faster, and recharge 50% faster.

This means that 40% of your casts will be virtually un-interruptable (and where Heal Party carries you against hexway in HA, this is vital), and 40% will have double the effectiveness (half the recharge = double the amount you can use em).

Obviously, I threw in a random percentage, as you'dd have to calculate every heal in a game with and without 40/40's to come up with accurate data, but my percentage comes fairly closes.

Because HP is a skill that often gets interrupted in HA, but you don't know exactly how much, you can't calculate the effectiveness of 40/40 sets. Assuming this is a decent hexway, they will rupt every 1 second Heal Party. However they won't be able to rupt a 0.5 second cast Heal Party, so this means your 40/40 set alone will give you the ability to actually get Heal Parties off.

Now, it all comes down to how many spells you would've got interrupted, and how many energy you have to actually spam. (Recharge means nothing if you don't have energy to use the skills)

So since there simply is too many variables to calculate the effectiveness without using actual in-game data, I just threw in a random percentage similar to the amount of casts that will definatly go through, and will get half the recharge.

The more I think about it, though, the more I feel this is simply becomming a HP +29/HP+30 shield discussion. If you died with a 40/40 set, it's likely you would've died with a shield aswell (since heway is pressure and not spike), and vice versa if you party wiped with a shield, a 40/40 definatly couldn't have kept u up alot longer.

Nontheless, I'dd rather see my party wiped with our HB monk on 40/40 than a shield, because then I atleast have the feeling he tried

You're wrong.

Edwards · Aug 19, 2010, 08:03 AM // 08:03

I don't really see what the debate is about. Against dual esurge there's really no need to camp either weapon set. Stay in your low energy shield set when there's Esurges or sins on you, and 40/40 otherwise. The argument that you'd like to see your monks dead in their 40/40 sets instead of their shield sets is ridiculous. If you're as high ranked and talented as you claim to be, Borat, then surely you can find monks that are capable of weapon swapping.

dorin · Aug 19, 2010, 01:37 PM // 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by gooeydark

The more I read your posts, the more I feel like you either don't monk, or are completely retarded.

This.

/12 chars

Tearz1993 · Aug 19, 2010, 07:46 PM // 19:46

did he really say he'd rather someone die on their 40/40 than shield set?

you realize that hexes / pressure builds get kills through health and ENERGY pressure, right? and when you get ressed with a res sig, you have 25% of your energy in the set you were in when you died?

oh I forgot, in HA it doesn't matter because you have channeling and 17 other energy management skills. people are allowed to be bad.

Krill · Aug 20, 2010, 04:39 AM // 04:39

HB doesn't stack with fast casting from a weapon set so heal party is going to be a 1s cast every time. If you need half recharges to keep a player alive that's indicative of losing anyway. Plus if it's a group with 2 diversions the result of spamming heals as fast as they recharge should be obvious; patient being diverted is the quickest way to lose.

I find that WotA sins are another one of those builds that test the ability of your prot. A good prot can negate a lot of their damage, especially if they are just training players to death (like most do). A bad prot that randomly spams LS and guardian is dead weight. Dropping wards and grasping earth, using mh! on players being trained, lightning shields (as mentioned) and weapon of shadow if you have it also reduces their damage. Each of these tactics may only slightly reduce damage but it all adds up to a lot.

Killed u man · Aug 22, 2010, 02:21 PM // 14:21

Quote:

Any type of pressure build (in GvG and HA) will have some form of damage, be it ele or physical. It can have a lot of it's damage mitigated by proper shield sets, which, in turn, will negate A LOT of pressure. Camping 40/40 set just for the slight chance to get random triggers on fasts casts and recharges for your skills is the most ridiculous arguement I've ever heard (ESPECIALLY for patient and dwaynas, both which will have super FC under HBoon, and have relatively short recharges themselves). Maybe a quick swap to cast HealParty here and there is fine, but dying on a 40/40 out of pure stupidity is unacceptable for any monk (in GvG OR HA).

On a side note: Comparing me to any HA monk no matter how high their rank: hilarious.

Damage can be armor igoring, wiki it if you don't believe me. I never said shield sets are useless. I never said getting on a shield set couldn't negate damage. I merely pointed out that I'dd rather see my monk spam on his 40/40 than on his shield set for obvious reasons.

Also, I heard 40% isn't a slight chance. On a side note: I have no doubt you're a good monk, never called you bad. There's no reason to get on all your high horses because I can't be asked observing every GvG match anno 2010 anymore.

Quote:

Implying your opinion matters.

Implying any opinion on the interwebs matters. Just making conversation and discussing.

Quote:

If you're as high ranked and talented as you claim to be, Borat, then surely you can find monks that are capable of weapon swapping.

If I get 2 people online on my FL during active hour who are even willing to play HA anymore these days, it would be a pretty sucessfull day for me. The majority of my friends left between 2-4 years ago, and the last remaining few (from [Dent]) left a few weeks ago to no-life SC2.

Quote:

The more I read your posts, the more I feel like you either don't monk, or are completely retarded.

I still don't know who you are, what you do, and how you do it. I'm not impressed by some random GvG'er who comes posting in the HA section pulling out GvG playstyles out of his ass claiming they're the best shit ever and the only way to play. I bet you're on of those monks who thinks Disciplined Stance is good, and runs it over channeling, because that's what the pros do.

I have no doubt you're a competent monk in GvG, but in HA, lulz. Camping 40/40 is the way to go for HA monks in this meta. Unless you run some typical hyperdefensive GvG build where you have all your shutdown camp their damage and still have 3 defensive casters.

Quote:

did he really say he'd rather someone die on their 40/40 than shield set?

you realize that hexes / pressure builds get kills through health and ENERGY pressure, right? and when you get ressed with a res sig, you have 25% of your energy in the set you were in when you died?

You do realize that when you die against a hexway, especially as the heal monk the game is over anyways? If not, you should play HA more.

Quote:

HB doesn't stack with fast casting from a weapon set so heal party is going to be a 1s cast every time. If you need half recharges to keep a player alive that's indicative of losing anyway. Plus if it's a group with 2 diversions the result of spamming heals as fast as they recharge should be obvious; patient being diverted is the quickest way to lose.

With that being true (haven't tested it), that is indeed a flaw in my statement, but solely cuz the rules of the game changes a couple of weeks/months ago. I've been monking like that for 5 years, so when I think 40/40, I automatically think 0.5s cast heal parties.

However, from the official wiki

Quote:

activation time reductions cannot stack above 25%

, so has anyone even truly tested this? Wiki says it should be possible to get 0.5s cast, (and I think I got 0.5s heal parties aswell not too long ago) and the update was rather long ago, so it should be up to date...

shadows of hob · Aug 22, 2010, 04:39 PM // 16:39

I can confirm, as HA monk mainly, that you can get 0.5s heal parties with HB.

Krill · Aug 22, 2010, 05:31 PM // 17:31

If you don't believe me spend a few min trying it.

Anyway, continuing on the point 1s heal party cast are another factor that gives hex groups a major advantage. You don't even need e-surge or e-burn for e-denial because power leaking heal party or channeling is easy and hurts more than a random loss of 9e.

Ｊamie · Aug 22, 2010, 06:18 PM // 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krill

If you don't believe me spend a few min trying it.

Anyway, continuing on the point 1s heal party cast are another factor that gives hex groups a major advantage. You don't even need e-surge or e-burn for e-denial because power leaking heal party or channeling is easy and hurts more than a random loss of 9e.

I piss myself laughing when I see a monk use ausp then I pleak heal party and strip ausp because I know I have just ruined that monks day. If you arent good enough to atleast run drain then you shouldnt be playing a monk, run leech if you don't trust your mesmer to rupt song/claim.

superraptors · Aug 23, 2010, 05:00 AM // 05:00

best bet is to have a ranger dshot bsurge, get a hammer warrior or 2 to spike/knock down the sins/mesmers when there bsurge is down, those builds have no defense at all, so have a fire ele drops some heats whether your knock downing them, kd - wound - with a heat = dead sin, keep aura on the rit, make sure your rit has offering + glyph with triple weapons to counter sins - if your rit dies you will most likely lose, rits have become way too dependant by monks since they were introduced. keep your rit alive and spike out / backline sins and mesmers till they die.

enemy monks dont do any offense to your team, so shut down there offense for a minute or two if your backline is struggling and make there monks burn half if not most of there energy then go for there monks/bsurge

gooeydark · Aug 23, 2010, 05:05 AM // 05:05

Everything you say is complete nonsense. Arguing with you is pointless when you keep replying with total crap. Anyone who takes HA advice from this guy must be as retarded as he is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

I still don't know who you are, what you do, and how you do it. I'm not impressed by some random GvG'er who comes posting in the HA section pulling out GvG playstyles out of his ass claiming they're the best shit ever and the only way to play. I bet you're on of those monks who thinks Disciplined Stance is good, and runs it over channeling, because that's what the pros do.

I have no doubt you're a competent monk in GvG, but in HA, lulz. Camping 40/40 is the way to go for HA monks in this meta. Unless you run some typical hyperdefensive GvG build where you have all your shutdown camp their damage and still have 3 defensive casters.

This random GvGer posting in the HA section is Hero r12 and monks regularly in both GvG and HA (oh, I also have 2 gold capes in GvG, but you think so low of GvG already that you probably don't care). I think I'm more than qualified to post about monking in both PvP types. (I'm Dark Fail Backline btw, since you keep "whoru'ing" me)

Someone here called you Borat right? I still assume you don't monk based off the stupid s*** you post, so what gives you any right to post in the HA section about monking? I can't imagine running hexes, backbreakerway, and whatever other gimmick with Dent gave you a whole lot of insight into monk playstyles to warrant giving advice on it. Perhaps you should take your ideas to the GvG section of Guru and post about monking in mesmerspike.

Killed u man · Aug 23, 2010, 01:35 PM // 13:35

Again, there is no point taking out all your GW achievements. I have stopped obs'ing GvG a long time ago, because everyone in general has become so bad at this game.

As I said before, 90% of monks nowadays can't even be compared anymore to people 2-3+ years ago, and can only achieve such a high level because the format overal (everyone) has followed the same decline in skill.

But on a sidenote, I do remember obs'ing you a couple of times, and while not completely bad, there definatly was some room for improvement in your playstyle. On the top of my head, I remember you being one of those stance-trigger happy monks. The second any warrior runs up to you, you balanced stance up. I even remember a (hammer) warrior using a full combo on a target right next to you, and you immediatly used BS when he spacebarred to you. Just saying you're not as godly as you think you, or as other people here claim you to be.

The initial statement which started me posting here was that "Have your rit spam weapons and monks camp shield set and you won't die to this", which I still believe is utter bullshit.

As a matter of fact, I monked in a balanced against this dual esurge shit, and it simply is too much damage to coop with. One esurge alone requires you, as the heal monk, to use patient on yourself on recharge solely to keep up with the damage from both the energy denial aswell as Mindwrack's loldamage.

This means you only have one healing skill to keep up an intire party taking damage. Heal Party is simply undoable because you will be at 0 energy all the time due to energy denial, and will keep having to use patient to coop with the redicilous mind wrack damage. I can get 1 HP off every 20 seconds, on recharge with my pdrain.

One dwayna's kiss on shield set will not keep a team up taking damage from 1-2 fire eles, a curses necro and 2 wotas.

A balanced team will die to this. Maybe if you have your coward warrior camp one sin, your hammer the other, your mesmer shutting down one surge, your ranger the other, and your rit pumping party heals. But then you're relying on the enemy Monks to be shit in order to get kills.

Fluffy Kittens · Aug 23, 2010, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Guy who posted above this... you're completely wrong... it's much harder to monk nowadays because of all the "lame" builds around and that's why there are only 5-6 good monks playing these days...not like old times when any r3 guy could leech as a monk.
And also.. decent balanced shouldn't die to meta hex... u have dual rupt so u disable their main power and it's easy. Damn I hate when ppl who know nothing acting like they're know how to play...

Killed u man · Aug 23, 2010, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rezz Anna Nicole

Guy who posted above this... you're completely wrong... it's much harder to monk nowadays because of all the "lame" builds around and that's why there are only 5-6 good monks playing these days...not like old times when any r3 guy could leech as a monk.
And also.. decent balanced shouldn't die to meta hex... u have dual rupt so u disable their main power and it's easy. Damn I hate when ppl who know nothing acting like they're know how to play...

You have never played balanced before on your intire HA carreer, and you say I know nothing?

Godforbid if you ever formed a balanced before where you're an axe warrior and have to call spikes.

gooeydark · Aug 23, 2010, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rezz Anna Nicole

Guy who posted above this... you're completely wrong... it's much harder to monk nowadays because of all the "lame" builds around and that's why there are only 5-6 good monks playing these days...not like old times when any r3 guy could leech as a monk.
And also.. decent balanced shouldn't die to meta hex... u have dual rupt so u disable their main power and it's easy. Damn I hate when ppl who know nothing acting like they're know how to play...

This

And I never called myself godly, just better than any other "high-ranked" HA monk. Keep throwing in random statements to detract from you being wrong, because that's all you have going for you.

Coast · Aug 23, 2010, 08:17 PM // 20:17

thought this was about wota+e surge and not about bashing eachother

Edwards · Aug 23, 2010, 08:32 PM // 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

One dwayna's kiss on shield set will not keep a team up taking damage from 1-2 fire eles, a curses necro and 2 wotas.

If the team you played had 2 WotAs, a Fire ele, a curses necro, 2 esurges, and 2 monks then how exactly did you not kill them?

-----

As a monk, when you see you're playing dual Esurge, the first thing you should do is open inventory, and swap your normal shield set weapon for one with a -5e inscription. None of the mesmers who play Esurge are very subtle about it, so just switch to shield whenever you see Mind Wrack pop up on you. After they hit their Surge + Burn or whatever, you can go back to 40/40 or high set and have energy to heal with.

This is not something that should have to be explained in a 5 year old game, and yet about 5% - 10% of monks in HA actually do this.

EDIT: It's a little outdated, but it's a classic.

Killed u man · Aug 23, 2010, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwards

If the team you played had 2 WotAs, a Fire ele, a curses necro, 2 esurges, and 2 monks then how exactly did you not kill them?

-----

As a monk, when you see you're playing dual Esurge, the first thing you should do is open inventory, and swap your normal shield set weapon for one with a -5e inscription. None of the mesmers who play Esurge are very subtle about it, so just switch to shield whenever you see Mind Wrack pop up on you. After they hit their Surge + Burn or whatever, you can go back to 40/40 or high set and have energy to heal with.

This is not something that should have to be explained in a 5 year old game, and yet about 5% - 10% of monks in HA actually do this.

EDIT: It's a little outdated, but it's a classic.

The problem isn't the energy denial. It's the fact that you can't coop with the damage. The only way balanced used to be able to coop with hexway was a good HB monk pumping heal parties. With mind wrack e-surge, you simply can't do that.

The fact that every spell you cast does about 100 damage to you (aswell as the fact that all the other sources of damage are pretty much unnegatabke) and again the fact that you will barely get 1HP off every 20 seconds means you will wipe.

Hexway players being bad is no excuse for calling the build beatable...

Elentari · Aug 24, 2010, 04:32 AM // 04:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

But on a sidenote, I do remember obs'ing you a couple of times, and while not completely bad, there definatly was some room for improvement in your playstyle. On the top of my head, I remember you being one of those stance-trigger happy monks. The second any warrior runs up to you, you balanced stance up. I even remember a (hammer) warrior using a full combo on a target right next to you, and you immediatly used BS when he spacebarred to you. Just saying you're not as godly as you think you, or as other people here claim you to be.

This shows exactly how ignorant you are. Pointing out one thing someone could have done better in one match you happened to obs flags you as a shitter who can't think outside the box. You calling that other hexway guy worthless at balanced was hilarious, he's more level-headed than you are.

That part about how one E-Surge mesmer destroys an entire team was entertaining. They are not unstoppable. Your team does not wipe when you reach 0 energy on a shield set. It is not justified to panic and patient yourself on a 40/40 set on recharge. You don't even need to swap for every cast.

Hexways run 8 soft targets. There's absolutely no reason you shouldn't wipe them within 2 minutes no matter how godly their monks are, other than constantly dying yourself. Pressure progresses with time, obviously if you don't kill anything you'll end up getting out-pressured and fold: that's what they're designed to do. But if you're landing kills then you will stabilize.

If you're constantly camping 1 char on each of theirs (which is just plain bad), you're not playing balanced; you're running the build but you're playing it like any other gimmick with wiki tactics.